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Good post by the way.

Damn! My ears are boxed by hearing all this charade.

So, Inever, I'm not sure what you mean by saying this is a charade. MIT has long met the full demonstrated financial need of each applicant. We have long been need-blind. Our committment to need-based aid has been well documented and demonstrated (feel free to read any history book on financial aid to see for yourself, including Rupert Wilkinson's Aiding Students, Buying Students.

While I know we (you and I) could probably quibble about a particular student's needs analysis (and maybe this is the complaint you are making), I don't think it is arguable that we do stand by our principles, in boom times as well as bust.

If you care to identify yourself to me privately and raise any concerns about your own financial aid, feel free. My email is listed on the web.

But my point in making this post was also to reassure prospective students that in difficult times MIT would not be retreating from its principles. This is certainly true in the main; [erhaps your situation has left you feeling otherwise.

--Daniel

Dear Dan,

It seems that you feel mildly offended, my apologies for that.

And as for the response, I really don't know to how to reply you, unless the dialogue becomes more complicated and out of context. The message I've tried convey, is complicated in its runtime sense, and can be easily misinterpreted. Moreover the space, and the place are not for such debates provided; when we(you & I), both can see on behalf of our experiences that: once made, professional views must not be changed.

So you do, what you feel just; and I do(not on your blogs), what I feel.

Quite a cliché! Lol

Regards,

I just want to say that I'm not Inever or X, lol...

Who said its you?

Good to know that in times of financial trouble and uncertainty, MIT will still provide students with the financial aid needed.

Does MIT have safe kept money just for these situations?

Some Universities have told me that many Universities in the United States started preparing and made plans for this crisis before most people even imagined it. Is this the same for MIT?

I don't doubt that you all of the students who receive aid deserve it, and I appreciate MIT's willingness to help pay for so many students' education. However, if it has the money, I feel that "no student should have to turn down MIT acceptance due to financial trouble." I know some middle class families must pay full tuition, and it is definitely a burden, although of course they won't necessarily have to sell their house or something. But that means that many students who are accepted may face a problem in which their parent says that it would cost too much to go to MIT, and that doesn't agree with me (or hopefully with you).

Is there any chance that you could provide a "feature" that would enable parents to make an independent calculation as to whether or not aid would be offered by MIT?
Do you consider income primarily, or net worth (i.e. value of home)? And does your office factor in the age of parents (their proximity to retirement)?

Yay! An active discussion thread!

So, X, first of all thank you for providing (some) clarity! I am not offended (not even mildly)! And even if I was, no apology needed... I hope our level of discourse (and the level of discourse on any of the blogs) is such that we can each state our opinion and our rationale for it, and still have a civil conversation. That at least is my plan!

So, we come back to some definitional questions here. First, what is middle class? If you use the generic term in use in America or Europe, then almost anyone can define themselves as a member of the middle class. If, however, you take a look at actual income statistics for what constitutes a true American middle-class, the definition narrows. Remember, median household income in the United States in 2006 was $48,451 (and that is household income, not individual income).

That said, our financial aid programs at MIT reach families earning much more than the median income. As you should know (and I have stated here before) we have no artificial cut-off for incomes for grant recipients. We have families earning up to (and over) $200K a year who receive grant (largely due to having more than one child in college when the income level is that high) and families who earn nearly nothing (just barely getting by on welfare and food stamps).

Financial choices are what they appear to be -- choices. I don't mean to minimize how painful some of these choices may be. "lmnop" opines that "many students who are accepted may face a problem in which their parent says that it would cost too much to go to MIT". In these situations, we can work with families to make sure that we are considering their student for any and all possible sources of aid, and -- if none is available -- work to find a financing straregy that works for that family.

When I said, "The staff in SFS stands ready to help students who need assistance due to changes in family financial circumstances or who are dealing with changes due to the economic times", I meant just that. Many families are seeing the incomes change overnight, and their assets dry up. Remember that at MIT we have already taken steps to deal with the asset situation: this year we eliminated consideration of home equity for families with incomes of $75K and less, and for other families we have long been protecting equity by a factor in comparison to income (thereby minimizing the impact of "artificial" home equity for those families who bought their homes years ago and could never afford them now). My point was that if families are feeling the pinch, they should simply talk to us.

As for you, X, if you want to continue the conversation privately, email me. My address is moneyman[at]mit[dot]edu. I would be happy to listen to and address your complaint.

-Daniel

Ivan, our financial aid funds are primarily based on earnings from endowment (represented by gifts from donors in the past and current gifts represented by our current campaign). Do we have a crystal ball that tells us the economy is going to go south? Well, I don't, but maybe Seth Alexander does... :)

Anonymous, stay tuned... Something like what you suggested should be coming in November... And it is time for me to run the series of how we calculate your EFC again. Maybe I'll do that in the coming weeks... (or you can look at my archive).

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I would have sent a mail, but, since you left nothing, to be explained; and I'm quite convinced that financial aid will not be any obstacle towards anybody's admission.

Its all sorted out, now.

As an international applicant from Egypt does it increase my chances of getting accpeted if I don't need financial aid?

*accepted

At MIT, it makes no difference. We are need-blind for all of our populations, domestic and international, so needing or not needing financial aid has no impact on admissions decisions.

Dan - MIT and many other top notch schools provide almost full tuition waivers for kids of parents who make $75K or less. However, if the family's combined income is, say, $76K-100K, MIT's scholarship/financial aid dwindles to a very low amount based on FAFSA and CSS, increasing the family's financial burden tremendously. This salary is still a middle class income and it taxes the family's retirement, savings, etc. If your income is low, you're taken care of, if you are very rich, you don't have to worry too much about paying an MIT tuition; however, if you fall in between, you get penalized.

Why doesn't MIT consider a sliding scale for tuition, say a percent of your combined income per semester (10-25%)? This is more equitable/fair and is still need based. And yes, I did ask for a reconsideration of the financial aid, and it was turned down.

Dan,

I agree with Dad out West. My Mom and Dad are really sweating this. I'm one of a set of twins and my twin has already been accepted to his choice of school. My younger brother will be applying in the next two years. As mentioned earlier, the economic times have forced everyone to tighten their belts. Even though they make more than 100k, two of us entering college at the same time and another entering two years down the road is going to push them into a financial burden. My Mom jokes that she'll have to work until she's 100, but I know she's really concerned. They've given up a lot to make sure we all had everything we needed to do well. We're all keeping our fingers crossed.

The money problem has been at the fore of my mind for the past month or so. I'm hugely hugely dependent on getting a scholarship. What really concerns me now is whether we get assurance that the scholarship amount will be maintained for all four years (provided our GPA is fine and other stuff like that) considering that there's a serious recession. Do we?

Thanks.

My daughter is applying to MIT and we are hoping she gets in as MIT is her dream. We had a business a few years ago that we had to shut down forcing us into personal bankruptcy. Even though our income is fine now ($160K), we have significant debts to pay off from the business and are limited in our capacity to acquire loans (home equity or otherwise) due to our credit scores. Can you tell me if MIT would take these circumstances into account when deciding on financial aid. Thanks very much.

If I recall correctly, MIT provides full tuition to those student's whose household has less income than $75,000. If this is true, does it hold true for all 4 years or does MIT monitor the incomes of the families every year and charge based on each year? Also If certain families have an income that is slightly larger than $75K (for example $80K) does MIT still give full tuition and is there a certain margin that is covered?